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[Music]

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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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[Music]

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yes it's the skeptic zone podcast

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episode number 708

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for the 1st of may may day

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mayday mayday mayday the 1st of may 2022

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richard saunders coming to you from

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soggy

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sog i tell you what everything's turning

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green

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the mold

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i'm running around the studio with my

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little spray

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dispenser of a

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weak

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white vinegar solution and water and

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scrubbing

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the walls

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you might be able to even hear the rain

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outside as i speak

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this is ridiculous what's coming up on

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the show this week despite the rain

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maynard's spooky action

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maynard will be interviewing author from

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melbourne the melbourne author george

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ivanov who has written a book called

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the supernatural

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survival guide all about

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bigfoot and yowie's and ghosts and esp

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and this is a book more or less aimed at

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the younger set the younger

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generation a great introduction to

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skeptical topics and monsters and all

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sorts of things in this book find out

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all about it when maynard maynard's

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spooky action maynard interviews george

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ivanov

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following that it's part one of a new

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part series by tim

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mendenham or read by tim bendum in the

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book of tim this is an article by dr

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tony wheeler

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all about santa claus

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i know it's may i know christmas is many

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months away but this

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this report looks at the truth and the

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myths behind the figure we know

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the santa claus part one this week

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part two next week

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then to round off the show it's a dive

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into the trove archives once again or

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this time this time as we do from time

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to time we go

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further afield to look at the paranormal

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the supernatural the spooky goings on as

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reported in

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newspapers from the united states

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starting off

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in alaska this week now big

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congratulations to our friend and

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colleague susan gerbic who you hear from

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time to time on the skeptic zone

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she's been awarded the philip class

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award

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for outstanding contributions in

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critical thinking and scientific

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understanding

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well done susan great news and i hope

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maybe even next week on next week's show

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we'll have an interview with susan

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all about her latest award a big shout

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out to those people who are able to get

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away for the weekend and having a nice

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weekend

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in a place they like

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wouldn't that be nice

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and i hope the skeptic zone

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can keep you company on your drive back

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if that's what you're doing

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but now it's time for me to run

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downstairs get out the uh the spray

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bottle keep spraying for mold have a cup

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of coffee in the meantime and while i'm

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doing all that

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i hope you enjoy

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here's maynard's spooky

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ladies and gentlemen boys and girls

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people under the couch hiding it's

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george ivanov here from the he's got an

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amazing book out that i get your name

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right george yes you do

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yes wow

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yes because now are you a member of the

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communist party

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no no i am not nor have i ever been a

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member of the communist party that's a

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pity i was i was hoping you were had

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because i had a different set of

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questions i'll just have to ask you

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about your book now of course you're the

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author of over a hundred books including

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the australian survival guide and the

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human body survival guide and by the way

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which is what's the most dangerous organ

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we should watch out for in the human

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body

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the most dangerous organ yes well if

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it's a survival guy i mean i mean the

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kidneys have done a few people in i know

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a liver's

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angry with me

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look they're they're all yeah look i

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don't know um i'd never considered it

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from that angle i was mostly looking at

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you know like gross things involved with

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the human body you know like those

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eyelash mites and and stuff like that

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the fact that we all have colonies of

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these little bugs living in our oh and

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did you have lots of great close-up

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photos of those little imites did you

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with the electron microscope yeah yeah

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in the bulk yes yes

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um so

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yeah probably actually you know the

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grocery store would probably be the skin

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because when you cut or burn it and

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stuff it does really horrible spooky

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stuff but george you've just written the

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supernatural survival guide which has a

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whole bunch of you cover all of the all

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the major items there basically all the

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good food groups you've got ufos ghosts

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there's evp in it

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electronic voice phenomenon no

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no oh wow the only reason i said that

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because i didn't see it but i noticed

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that there's wave forms on the cover of

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the book and i thought well maybe audio

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waveforms on the back cover of the book

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i thought well maybe that was because

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you did evp in the book but i couldn't

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see it no no no that was done because

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it's it's kind of a cool image mostly

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the designer liked it and um it kind of

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relates to the stuff in the book on on

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infrasound and sound waves ah

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well you've got bigfoot in there you've

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got the cryptids you've got spontaneous

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human combustion that's great

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spontaneous human combustion yeah i had

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to tone that down considerably from the

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oh well yes because now the the age

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range you're looking for is it uh under

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the teens or tweens or what sort of age

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we aiming at yeah look it's it's uh

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aimed at you know upper primary so

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you know around the 10 to 12

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mark but that's kind of that's the the

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official aiming point but you know i

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always try to go wider as well making it

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you know safer for for younger kids and

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also hopefully interesting um for older

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kids as well well for me the interesting

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stuff starts on page 151 which is the

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ultra weird section the uh you know the

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the various section uh there's it's got

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frog reign and that's where the human

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combustion is as well you also look at

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some dis disappearances like amelia

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earhart and that kind of thing uh are

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you were you influenced by books of your

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childhood like the reader's digest would

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put out books on uh famous hoaxes ufos

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ghosts so you're looking at that sort of

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model

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look i was very much influenced um

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by a series of books that was um

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published called the world of the

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unknown so there was like ufos uh ghosts

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and and monsters i i read these books as

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a kid and they're very sensationalized

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and they had such an effect on me

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because i believed every single word

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that was in these books because it was

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in a book so it had to be real

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did you used to wander around with a

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camera as a kid hoping you might catch

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something on camera yes indeed in fact

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because i borrowed these books from my

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school library but i was particularly

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obsessed with the ufo one so i got my

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parents to buy me that one and in the

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ufo book there's actually a i fill out

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report that you can do if you happen to

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see a ufo and i actually got my dad to

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take that book with him to work and

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photocopy that page a dozen times so

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that i would have all these ufo reports

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ready to fill out the moment i saw a ufo

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and i used to go out into the backyard

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you know at dusk with my camera one of

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those horrible little cartridge cameras

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that wouldn't have been able to take a

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photo anyway of the famous kodak

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instamatic camera yeah um

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yeah

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gosh i don't know what brand it was or

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whatever but the ones that use those

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little cartridges oh yes and the photos

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came out square the photos came out

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square didn't they that's right yes and

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they were always no matter how still you

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held the camera they were always grainy

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and blurry no matter what without fail

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so actually perfect perfect for

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capturing a ufo isn't it because most

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photographs of the ufos are grainy and

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blurry oh look at as a child did you end

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up having to resort to throwing a hubcap

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or a hat in the air and taking a photo

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with the incident no i i never never

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actually did that because

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you know like i uh the idea of faking

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something never even occurred to me as a

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kid because i was convinced that one day

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i was going to see a real one

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there's also many other australian

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things in this as well that people would

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know internationally because there's the

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valentich disappearance case uh you you

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do mention the best straight triangle

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which i didn't know was a thing bastrate

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by the way is the large bit of water

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that it's been

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the government has mandated that that

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large bit of water been between

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australia and the and the mainland of

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australia and tasmania because if that

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was that if tasmania was joined to

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australia we'd been a hell of a mess i

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mean apart from apart from valenti

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as a couple of tankers gone missing did

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the battleship disappear what happened

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there there'd been a number of

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disappearances and uh ufo sightings that

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have all been attributed to this bass

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straight triangle thing i mean that that

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was actually something i had no idea of

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until i started doing the research as

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far as i knew there was the you know

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bermuda triangle and that was it but

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then when you start um uh doing all the

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research you know people have made up

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these triangles all over the place you

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know the dragon's triangle new japan

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being another you know

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big one

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and then then there there it was the

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best straight triangle and i thought oh

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well that's just just too good to not

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include

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and something i learned from your book

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which has been pestering me uh with the

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westall 66 case one of the biggest mass

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sightings of uh ufo uh probably ever

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really i think there's there's only one

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african one that is on a par with it uh

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and you've got hazel edwards there who

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was a teacher at the school at the time

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and it's amazing because i had always

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wondered because there's a very famous

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story that a girl was taken away to the

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hospital and she never returned to

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school after the sighting and i thought

277
00:10:19,030 --> 00:10:17,519
well there's a testable claim and no

278
00:10:20,949 --> 00:10:19,040
one's ever brought it up it was in the

279
00:10:22,389 --> 00:10:20,959
documentary that were made i was always

280
00:10:24,230 --> 00:10:22,399
found that interesting because there is

281
00:10:26,230 --> 00:10:24,240
no mention of this prior to the

282
00:10:28,790 --> 00:10:26,240
documentary that i could find

283
00:10:31,110 --> 00:10:28,800
yes documentary west 66 is the first

284
00:10:33,030 --> 00:10:31,120
time this is mentioned i watched that

285
00:10:35,509 --> 00:10:33,040
documentary before i had done too much

286
00:10:37,509 --> 00:10:35,519
other research on it and it was all very

287
00:10:38,870 --> 00:10:37,519
very convincing and stuff until you then

288
00:10:40,230 --> 00:10:38,880
start doing the further research and

289
00:10:42,389 --> 00:10:40,240
find out all the stuff that they left

290
00:10:44,470 --> 00:10:42,399
out and the you know stuff like that

291
00:10:46,389 --> 00:10:44,480
disappearance it baffled me why the

292
00:10:47,990 --> 00:10:46,399
documentary didn't follow it up

293
00:10:49,750 --> 00:10:48,000
and of course the reason yes because he

294
00:10:51,670 --> 00:10:49,760
didn't follow it up is because there was

295
00:10:53,750 --> 00:10:51,680
nothing to follow up

296
00:10:55,430 --> 00:10:53,760
yes it was simply the the student

297
00:10:57,509 --> 00:10:55,440
transferred to another school

298
00:11:00,470 --> 00:10:57,519
yeah it was like it was like a week or

299
00:11:02,710 --> 00:11:00,480
so afterwards so you know

300
00:11:04,949 --> 00:11:02,720
there was no immediate gone sort of

301
00:11:07,110 --> 00:11:04,959
thing and this this is the great problem

302
00:11:08,870 --> 00:11:07,120
with this stuff like this stuff that

303
00:11:11,190 --> 00:11:08,880
wasn't like properly researched at the

304
00:11:13,269 --> 00:11:11,200
time and then his research 20 years

305
00:11:17,350 --> 00:11:13,279
later relying on

306
00:11:19,590 --> 00:11:17,360
um failing memories and um

307
00:11:21,670 --> 00:11:19,600
you know memory contamination and and

308
00:11:23,750 --> 00:11:21,680
and all of this sort of stuff so it's

309
00:11:25,430 --> 00:11:23,760
you don't get an accurate picture it's

310
00:11:26,870 --> 00:11:25,440
why we're never going to know exactly

311
00:11:29,590 --> 00:11:26,880
what it was that they saw i don't think

312
00:11:31,910 --> 00:11:29,600
we will ever have the definitive answer

313
00:11:34,310 --> 00:11:31,920
because it's it's just it's too too much

314
00:11:37,190 --> 00:11:34,320
time has passed and people's memories

315
00:11:38,710 --> 00:11:37,200
are just not that accurate uh i i did a

316
00:11:41,190 --> 00:11:38,720
series of posts recently of all the

317
00:11:43,269 --> 00:11:41,200
stuff that i left out of these books um

318
00:11:45,350 --> 00:11:43,279
that were in the first draft but had to

319
00:11:47,990 --> 00:11:45,360
get cut down and the the full interview

320
00:11:49,110 --> 00:11:48,000
with hazel edwards is is on my blog

321
00:11:50,629 --> 00:11:49,120
because we

322
00:11:52,150 --> 00:11:50,639
we ended up um cutting it out of the

323
00:11:53,670 --> 00:11:52,160
book because there just wasn't room and

324
00:11:56,470 --> 00:11:53,680
it was a recovering information that was

325
00:11:58,550 --> 00:11:56,480
already in the um in the text of oh you

326
00:12:00,550 --> 00:11:58,560
do have a recommendation for websites at

327
00:12:01,829 --> 00:12:00,560
the end that kids can uh look out but

328
00:12:04,069 --> 00:12:01,839
what is that what is it where will we

329
00:12:07,509 --> 00:12:04,079
find that blog what is the uh url oh

330
00:12:08,949 --> 00:12:07,519
that's uh george ivanoff.com.edu

331
00:12:11,990 --> 00:12:08,959
that because that would be fascinating

332
00:12:14,470 --> 00:12:12,000
to read and look also i i just was

333
00:12:16,230 --> 00:12:14,480
there's other things in here too uh the

334
00:12:17,910 --> 00:12:16,240
the valentine's case as i said is a

335
00:12:20,710 --> 00:12:17,920
great one and

336
00:12:23,110 --> 00:12:20,720
my favorite section of the book is i i

337
00:12:25,430 --> 00:12:23,120
like a beat up i like i like a big

338
00:12:27,110 --> 00:12:25,440
nothing and there's many big nothings in

339
00:12:30,069 --> 00:12:27,120
this book from you a number of times

340
00:12:31,829 --> 00:12:30,079
there is the sections i saw nothing the

341
00:12:34,710 --> 00:12:31,839
interviews with yourself

342
00:12:36,790 --> 00:12:34,720
and you uh one was about ufos one was

343
00:12:38,629 --> 00:12:36,800
about ghosts that i saw and it's like

344
00:12:41,590 --> 00:12:38,639
did anything happen no did you hear

345
00:12:43,190 --> 00:12:41,600
anything no did you see anything no why

346
00:12:45,430 --> 00:12:43,200
are you even doing this interview i

347
00:12:47,030 --> 00:12:45,440
don't know that's great i mean well

348
00:12:49,590 --> 00:12:47,040
thank you it was an attempt to just get

349
00:12:52,470 --> 00:12:49,600
a little bit of humor in there and

350
00:12:56,230 --> 00:12:52,480
because the previous two books uh

351
00:12:58,550 --> 00:12:56,240
included a bunch of personal experiences

352
00:13:00,949 --> 00:12:58,560
i i wanted to continue that trend with

353
00:13:03,590 --> 00:13:00,959
this book as well and and i didn't

354
00:13:05,030 --> 00:13:03,600
actually ever see a ufo or a ghost or

355
00:13:06,949 --> 00:13:05,040
anything but then it occurred to me that

356
00:13:08,949 --> 00:13:06,959
well hang on a day i've been to loch

357
00:13:10,790 --> 00:13:08,959
ness and but i didn't see anything i've

358
00:13:12,550 --> 00:13:10,800
been to australia's supposedly most

359
00:13:14,870 --> 00:13:12,560
haunted house and i didn't see anything

360
00:13:15,910 --> 00:13:14,880
oh we could turn that into you know

361
00:13:17,590 --> 00:13:15,920
funny little

362
00:13:19,350 --> 00:13:17,600
with just those two pages of

363
00:13:20,389 --> 00:13:19,360
non-information of non-happenings in

364
00:13:25,829 --> 00:13:20,399
that you could probably get yourself a

365
00:13:30,870 --> 00:13:29,829
man man claims he saw nothing but did he

366
00:13:33,110 --> 00:13:30,880
and then they'll have the guy with the

367
00:13:35,829 --> 00:13:33,120
big hair come on go aliens

368
00:13:37,590 --> 00:13:35,839
yep that's what'll go on actually is

369
00:13:39,670 --> 00:13:37,600
what's your most fascinating realm of

370
00:13:41,509 --> 00:13:39,680
the supernatural that you uh maybe

371
00:13:42,629 --> 00:13:41,519
uncovered or reopened when you're

372
00:13:44,790 --> 00:13:42,639
writing the book

373
00:13:46,389 --> 00:13:44,800
um you know what i don't think i

374
00:13:50,069 --> 00:13:46,399
uncovered

375
00:13:53,509 --> 00:13:50,079
anything apart from the fact that

376
00:13:55,590 --> 00:13:53,519
uh a lot of articles and and books that

377
00:13:57,829 --> 00:13:55,600
write about the subject for kids leave

378
00:13:59,670 --> 00:13:57,839
out stuff that's that that was my big

379
00:14:02,389 --> 00:13:59,680
take home from all of this the amount of

380
00:14:05,030 --> 00:14:02,399
information that is left out

381
00:14:07,750 --> 00:14:05,040
um you know bigfoot being you know the

382
00:14:10,069 --> 00:14:07,760
the big example because that that that

383
00:14:12,230 --> 00:14:10,079
case where they they found the the

384
00:14:14,949 --> 00:14:12,240
footprints and they took uh

385
00:14:16,389 --> 00:14:14,959
plaster molds and all those photographs

386
00:14:19,990 --> 00:14:16,399
that appeared in the newspaper and that

387
00:14:22,389 --> 00:14:20,000
resulted in in the name bigfoot being

388
00:14:24,230 --> 00:14:22,399
given to to this creature everyone

389
00:14:26,949 --> 00:14:24,240
writes about that everyone writes about

390
00:14:29,430 --> 00:14:26,959
those photographs and those casts no one

391
00:14:31,750 --> 00:14:29,440
writes about the fact that you know a

392
00:14:34,389 --> 00:14:31,760
number of years later it was actually

393
00:14:36,310 --> 00:14:34,399
revealed to be a practical joke

394
00:14:37,269 --> 00:14:36,320
um you know they they produced the

395
00:14:39,750 --> 00:14:37,279
actual

396
00:14:42,310 --> 00:14:39,760
the the wooden molds that the guy used

397
00:14:43,990 --> 00:14:42,320
to make the the footprints in the mud

398
00:14:46,470 --> 00:14:44,000
and all of that sort of stuff so it was

399
00:14:48,470 --> 00:14:46,480
actually officially you know the guy

400
00:14:50,230 --> 00:14:48,480
the guy's kids came forward after he

401
00:14:52,550 --> 00:14:50,240
died and said look dad made us promise

402
00:14:55,670 --> 00:14:52,560
not to tell anyone until after he died

403
00:14:57,509 --> 00:14:55,680
well he died here's all the evidence it

404
00:14:59,350 --> 00:14:57,519
was a practical joke

405
00:15:01,110 --> 00:14:59,360
no one ever writes about that they

406
00:15:04,389 --> 00:15:01,120
always write about you know the fact

407
00:15:06,069 --> 00:15:04,399
that all these footprints were found

408
00:15:07,269 --> 00:15:06,079
it sounds like you've got in your mind

409
00:15:08,629 --> 00:15:07,279
that you are writing for a very

410
00:15:09,990 --> 00:15:08,639
impressionable audience is that

411
00:15:12,629 --> 00:15:10,000
something you're thinking of when you're

412
00:15:15,509 --> 00:15:12,639
doing this oh yeah look one of my goals

413
00:15:16,949 --> 00:15:15,519
with this was i guess to to um introduce

414
00:15:19,670 --> 00:15:16,959
kids to the whole idea of critical

415
00:15:21,269 --> 00:15:19,680
thinking and that you don't just

416
00:15:23,110 --> 00:15:21,279
like accept

417
00:15:25,990 --> 00:15:23,120
everything at face value you've got to

418
00:15:27,430 --> 00:15:26,000
ask yourself the questions you know well

419
00:15:28,629 --> 00:15:27,440
oh okay

420
00:15:33,189 --> 00:15:28,639
so

421
00:15:35,990 --> 00:15:33,199
have an explanation

422
00:15:37,749 --> 00:15:36,000
for a definitive explanation for let's

423
00:15:40,389 --> 00:15:37,759
let's look at the facts and look at the

424
00:15:44,230 --> 00:15:40,399
possible explanations now out of those

425
00:15:45,509 --> 00:15:44,240
possible explanations um high altitude

426
00:15:48,389 --> 00:15:45,519
balloon

427
00:15:52,629 --> 00:15:48,399
um or visiting aliens

428
00:15:54,710 --> 00:15:52,639
which one is the more likely to be the

429
00:15:57,269 --> 00:15:54,720
case

430
00:15:59,350 --> 00:15:57,279
because so much literature like pushes

431
00:16:00,710 --> 00:15:59,360
the more unlikely case because it's the

432
00:16:02,389 --> 00:16:00,720
more interesting case because it's the

433
00:16:05,670 --> 00:16:02,399
more you know

434
00:16:09,110 --> 00:16:07,110
possibility but

435
00:16:11,509 --> 00:16:09,120
no one ever pushes the

436
00:16:13,189 --> 00:16:11,519
the more logical the more likely

437
00:16:14,470 --> 00:16:13,199
explanation

438
00:16:16,870 --> 00:16:14,480
oh

439
00:16:18,230 --> 00:16:16,880
and is there if this is another thing i

440
00:16:19,829 --> 00:16:18,240
love asking

441
00:16:21,749 --> 00:16:19,839
critical thinkers and skeptics if there

442
00:16:23,910 --> 00:16:21,759
was one of these genres or one of these

443
00:16:26,710 --> 00:16:23,920
supernatural things that were

444
00:16:28,710 --> 00:16:26,720
real which one would you like it to be

445
00:16:31,269 --> 00:16:28,720
oh aliens i would i would love that you

446
00:16:33,910 --> 00:16:31,279
know i i approach all of this from a

447
00:16:35,749 --> 00:16:33,920
from a skeptical point of view but like

448
00:16:37,110 --> 00:16:35,759
at the back of my mind i keep hoping

449
00:16:39,189 --> 00:16:37,120
that i'm wrong

450
00:16:41,030 --> 00:16:39,199
that the aliens are actually visiting

451
00:16:43,350 --> 00:16:41,040
because i think that would be incredibly

452
00:16:46,710 --> 00:16:43,360
cool i would i would love for someone to

453
00:16:47,670 --> 00:16:46,720
come forward with definitive evidence

454
00:16:49,749 --> 00:16:47,680
that

455
00:16:52,550 --> 00:16:49,759
the the aliens have been visiting us

456
00:16:54,230 --> 00:16:52,560
well ghosts i'm not so keen on you know

457
00:16:55,749 --> 00:16:54,240
the whole idea of like getting people

458
00:16:58,389 --> 00:16:55,759
coming back to haunt you i really don't

459
00:17:00,550 --> 00:16:58,399
like the idea so i prefer that to remain

460
00:17:01,910 --> 00:17:00,560
fiction but you know

461
00:17:03,590 --> 00:17:01,920
well yes because

462
00:17:04,630 --> 00:17:03,600
but i've rethought the whole alien thing

463
00:17:06,230 --> 00:17:04,640
because there's a big oh you know if

464
00:17:08,549 --> 00:17:06,240
aliens were discovered and they were

465
00:17:10,789 --> 00:17:08,559
real the whole world would unite

466
00:17:12,309 --> 00:17:10,799
no they wouldn't half

467
00:17:14,309 --> 00:17:12,319
half of them with half of them would

468
00:17:16,710 --> 00:17:14,319
think it was real they would probably be

469
00:17:18,309 --> 00:17:16,720
the democrats uh half the republicans

470
00:17:20,549 --> 00:17:18,319
would go and hide in the hills the other

471
00:17:22,549 --> 00:17:20,559
half would protest and go with big signs

472
00:17:24,949 --> 00:17:22,559
going don't you don't use

473
00:17:27,189 --> 00:17:24,959
don't you suppress my rights you aliens

474
00:17:29,029 --> 00:17:27,199
so i think it would actually heighten

475
00:17:29,909 --> 00:17:29,039
the divisions we currently have in some

476
00:17:32,070 --> 00:17:29,919
ways

477
00:17:35,190 --> 00:17:32,080
i don't think there's anything that that

478
00:17:37,110 --> 00:17:35,200
could possibly unite the human race

479
00:17:40,150 --> 00:17:37,120
if we if anything we are getting more

480
00:17:41,110 --> 00:17:40,160
and more divisive and and just

481
00:17:42,630 --> 00:17:41,120
yeah you

482
00:17:45,430 --> 00:17:42,640
you think a pandemic might have made

483
00:17:46,630 --> 00:17:45,440
everyone pull together but not so

484
00:17:51,590 --> 00:17:46,640
no

485
00:17:54,150 --> 00:17:51,600
oh yes you said you went to australia's

486
00:17:55,669 --> 00:17:54,160
most uh haunted place what what was it

487
00:17:58,070 --> 00:17:55,679
and what did you not see there which

488
00:18:00,230 --> 00:17:58,080
wasn't there oh the the

489
00:18:02,230 --> 00:18:00,240
monte cristo homestead in new south

490
00:18:04,630 --> 00:18:02,240
wales they they they publicize

491
00:18:05,830 --> 00:18:04,640
themselves as australia's most haunted

492
00:18:08,870 --> 00:18:05,840
house there

493
00:18:11,270 --> 00:18:08,880
there's been a lot of um

494
00:18:13,830 --> 00:18:11,280
deaths that have happened over the years

495
00:18:16,549 --> 00:18:13,840
in in that household a lot of unhappy

496
00:18:18,549 --> 00:18:16,559
deaths um well i mean i guess all debts

497
00:18:21,430 --> 00:18:18,559
are unhappy to a certain extent but you

498
00:18:23,029 --> 00:18:21,440
know um unhappy circumstances you know

499
00:18:25,510 --> 00:18:23,039
where you know

500
00:18:27,190 --> 00:18:25,520
a baby was dropped down some stairs you

501
00:18:30,230 --> 00:18:27,200
know and another person was pushed over

502
00:18:33,029 --> 00:18:30,240
a balcony and um there's all these kind

503
00:18:34,710 --> 00:18:33,039
of um very unhappy circumstances

504
00:18:36,710 --> 00:18:34,720
surrounding a lot of deaths at that time

505
00:18:38,070 --> 00:18:36,720
and and did you get a vibe from the

506
00:18:40,390 --> 00:18:38,080
place did you get any did you get any

507
00:18:42,390 --> 00:18:40,400
feeling in your water nothing no not

508
00:18:45,029 --> 00:18:42,400
nothing i i went there

509
00:18:47,510 --> 00:18:45,039
because it was australia's supposedly

510
00:18:50,150 --> 00:18:47,520
most haunted house and i had just had a

511
00:18:52,549 --> 00:18:50,160
fiction book at the time come out um uh

512
00:18:54,390 --> 00:18:52,559
called the haunting of spook house so i

513
00:18:55,669 --> 00:18:54,400
i decided that since i was passing by i

514
00:18:58,630 --> 00:18:55,679
wanted to stop there and take some

515
00:19:01,350 --> 00:18:58,640
publicity pics of my haunted house book

516
00:19:03,029 --> 00:19:01,360
in an actual haunted house oh have you

517
00:19:04,710 --> 00:19:03,039
now what's been the i know the book has

518
00:19:06,549 --> 00:19:04,720
only just recently come out but has

519
00:19:09,190 --> 00:19:06,559
penguin been passing an email onto you

520
00:19:11,430 --> 00:19:09,200
going i thought on page 37 that you said

521
00:19:12,789 --> 00:19:11,440
this thing and it's not sir

522
00:19:15,110 --> 00:19:12,799
not yet

523
00:19:16,789 --> 00:19:15,120
but you know it's it's bound to i i live

524
00:19:19,029 --> 00:19:16,799
in fear of those sort of things

525
00:19:22,230 --> 00:19:19,039
happening um with with non-fiction books

526
00:19:24,070 --> 00:19:22,240
because i i'm human i make mistakes so

527
00:19:25,830 --> 00:19:24,080
is my editor so he's you know my fact

528
00:19:28,870 --> 00:19:25,840
checker that we're we're all you know

529
00:19:30,630 --> 00:19:28,880
just people and mistakes do happen

530
00:19:32,070 --> 00:19:30,640
um and things

531
00:19:34,310 --> 00:19:32,080
undoubtedly will have crawled in

532
00:19:36,549 --> 00:19:34,320
somewhere along the line that that isn't

533
00:19:38,470 --> 00:19:36,559
right and um all we can do is if

534
00:19:40,710 --> 00:19:38,480
something like that's been uh pointed

535
00:19:42,470 --> 00:19:40,720
out i will go and double check all that

536
00:19:44,870 --> 00:19:42,480
information and for the next edition

537
00:19:47,350 --> 00:19:44,880
we'll we'll make amendments

538
00:19:50,150 --> 00:19:47,360
um but yeah so far so far that hasn't

539
00:19:52,230 --> 00:19:50,160
happened so fingers crossed and i i like

540
00:19:54,630 --> 00:19:52,240
your talking with the dead and partying

541
00:19:55,909 --> 00:19:54,640
with the dead section and uh look if the

542
00:19:57,350 --> 00:19:55,919
kids are going to get some great ideas

543
00:19:59,270 --> 00:19:57,360
for halloween costumes from this for

544
00:20:01,350 --> 00:19:59,280
sure oh good

545
00:20:03,029 --> 00:20:01,360
i'm glad

546
00:20:04,789 --> 00:20:03,039
the thing with this book is that i have

547
00:20:07,909 --> 00:20:04,799
included you know a lot of stuff that

548
00:20:09,990 --> 00:20:07,919
just that amuses me personally and while

549
00:20:12,070 --> 00:20:10,000
the book is aimed at a particular age

550
00:20:13,510 --> 00:20:12,080
range and uh and i've done my best to to

551
00:20:16,149 --> 00:20:13,520
find stuff that's going to be of the

552
00:20:18,549 --> 00:20:16,159
interest to that age range i i i have to

553
00:20:20,630 --> 00:20:18,559
put in the stuff that just amuses me

554
00:20:23,110 --> 00:20:20,640
even if sometimes kids might scratch

555
00:20:24,549 --> 00:20:23,120
their heads over it and so where do you

556
00:20:26,710 --> 00:20:24,559
go after writing a book on the

557
00:20:29,270 --> 00:20:26,720
supernatural anyway do you

558
00:20:31,510 --> 00:20:29,280
go to a book on bird watching

559
00:20:33,110 --> 00:20:31,520
well actually from here i've gone back

560
00:20:35,510 --> 00:20:33,120
to fiction

561
00:20:37,029 --> 00:20:35,520
so my next book is a

562
00:20:39,190 --> 00:20:37,039
middle grade novel

563
00:20:45,029 --> 00:20:39,200
tentatively called secrets of monster

564
00:20:50,310 --> 00:20:47,190
and yes it will have monsters and

565
00:20:52,070 --> 00:20:50,320
cryptids and stuff in it all inspired by

566
00:20:53,669 --> 00:20:52,080
you know the research and stuff that i

567
00:20:56,230 --> 00:20:53,679
did for this book but now moving

568
00:20:58,070 --> 00:20:56,240
definitely into the realms of fiction

569
00:21:00,230 --> 00:20:58,080
thank you for talking to us today about

570
00:21:01,510 --> 00:21:00,240
this george it's it's penguin but

571
00:21:03,110 --> 00:21:01,520
penguin is the publisher that's going to

572
00:21:05,110 --> 00:21:03,120
be forwarding all the crank letters that

573
00:21:06,950 --> 00:21:05,120
come i think uh you you might have to

574
00:21:08,310 --> 00:21:06,960
have a crank male section in your next

575
00:21:12,310 --> 00:21:08,320
book

576
00:21:14,230 --> 00:21:12,320
it's a look it'll make a coffee table

577
00:21:15,990 --> 00:21:14,240
book because uh you know on a friday

578
00:21:17,990 --> 00:21:16,000
night uh you know for adults a few

579
00:21:19,590 --> 00:21:18,000
drinks and away you go there's multiple

580
00:21:21,990 --> 00:21:19,600
topics of conversation and argument to

581
00:21:24,310 --> 00:21:22,000
be had in this where can we get it

582
00:21:25,830 --> 00:21:24,320
um you can get it at all good book shops

583
00:21:28,549 --> 00:21:25,840
around australia and you could probably

584
00:21:30,470 --> 00:21:28,559
get it in some bad book shops as well um

585
00:21:31,990 --> 00:21:30,480
it's yeah it's uh because it's my

586
00:21:33,990 --> 00:21:32,000
current book it should be pretty much

587
00:21:35,669 --> 00:21:34,000
available um anywhere

588
00:21:37,830 --> 00:21:35,679
and once again your website where we can

589
00:21:40,710 --> 00:21:37,840
find out more and possibly uh see one of

590
00:21:43,750 --> 00:21:40,720
your non interviews

591
00:21:45,350 --> 00:21:43,760
the website is george

592
00:21:48,070 --> 00:21:45,360
dot a u

593
00:21:50,310 --> 00:21:48,080
and one if there were aliens of all the

594
00:21:53,270 --> 00:21:50,320
aliens you've seen or created in fiction

595
00:21:55,909 --> 00:21:53,280
which ones would you like them to be

596
00:21:57,750 --> 00:21:55,919
aren't time lords from doctor who

597
00:21:59,430 --> 00:21:57,760
wow well there's only one or two isn't

598
00:22:00,710 --> 00:21:59,440
it oh depending on which incarnation of

599
00:22:02,230 --> 00:22:00,720
the doctor there used to be sometimes

600
00:22:10,550 --> 00:22:02,240
there's a lot of them as long as davros

601
00:22:53,110 --> 00:22:17,850
[Music]

602
00:23:04,550 --> 00:22:53,990
on

603
00:23:20,470 --> 00:23:10,290
[Music]

604
00:23:40,710 --> 00:23:23,150
a

605
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:40,720
[Music]

606
00:23:49,110 --> 00:23:41,850
with tim mendham

607
00:23:53,750 --> 00:23:51,830
hi my name is tim manderman

608
00:23:56,310 --> 00:23:53,760
executive officer of australian skeptics

609
00:23:58,549 --> 00:23:56,320
inc and editor of our quarterly magazine

610
00:24:00,870 --> 00:23:58,559
the skeptic which you can download most

611
00:24:03,990 --> 00:24:00,880
issues for free from our website

612
00:24:07,269 --> 00:24:05,590
now before i start with this particular

613
00:24:09,350 --> 00:24:07,279
article i should ask that all the little

614
00:24:10,549 --> 00:24:09,360
east should be moved somewhere else

615
00:24:12,149 --> 00:24:10,559
because it's about

616
00:24:15,190 --> 00:24:12,159
santa

617
00:24:16,870 --> 00:24:15,200
in fact as we say around christmas time

618
00:24:19,750 --> 00:24:16,880
all thoughts turn to the most important

619
00:24:21,510 --> 00:24:19,760
person of the season santa claus

620
00:24:23,430 --> 00:24:21,520
so this is a background on santa claus

621
00:24:25,430 --> 00:24:23,440
by anthony wheeler

622
00:24:27,909 --> 00:24:25,440
and it comes from the skeptic magazine

623
00:24:30,870 --> 00:24:27,919
from december 2015

624
00:24:32,870 --> 00:24:30,880
which is volume 35 number four and as i

625
00:24:34,390 --> 00:24:32,880
say you can download that for free from

626
00:24:36,470 --> 00:24:34,400
our website

627
00:24:37,750 --> 00:24:36,480
and anthony starts off who believes in

628
00:24:42,549 --> 00:24:37,760
father christmas

629
00:24:44,549 --> 00:24:42,559
is the myth how did it originate

630
00:24:47,669 --> 00:24:44,559
how can i pretend the gift giver becomes

631
00:24:49,430 --> 00:24:47,679
so famous and so popular

632
00:24:51,750 --> 00:24:49,440
australians know father christmas as a

633
00:24:53,430 --> 00:24:51,760
tubby cheerful and very friendly old man

634
00:24:54,710 --> 00:24:53,440
dressed in a red suit with white fur

635
00:24:57,029 --> 00:24:54,720
trimmings

636
00:24:59,110 --> 00:24:57,039
his long red floppy cap end is topped

637
00:25:00,710 --> 00:24:59,120
with a white tassel and his boots are

638
00:25:02,549 --> 00:25:00,720
shiny black

639
00:25:05,110 --> 00:25:02,559
children can always tell the real father

640
00:25:08,310 --> 00:25:05,120
christmas from his many imitators by his

641
00:25:09,909 --> 00:25:08,320
deep hearty ho ho ho laugh

642
00:25:12,149 --> 00:25:09,919
every christmas santa claus leaves his

643
00:25:14,149 --> 00:25:12,159
home at the north pole on a sled pulled

644
00:25:16,870 --> 00:25:14,159
through the sky by eight magical

645
00:25:19,029 --> 00:25:16,880
reindeer dasher dancer prancer vixen

646
00:25:21,430 --> 00:25:19,039
comet cupid donna and blitzen an

647
00:25:23,269 --> 00:25:21,440
additional reindeer rudolph is so

648
00:25:25,669 --> 00:25:23,279
popular he has his own song about his

649
00:25:27,750 --> 00:25:25,679
bright red nose

650
00:25:29,590 --> 00:25:27,760
the sled is laden with presence enough

651
00:25:30,549 --> 00:25:29,600
for every boy and girl in the whole

652
00:25:32,549 --> 00:25:30,559
world

653
00:25:34,710 --> 00:25:32,559
and santa claus spends all christmas eve

654
00:25:36,390 --> 00:25:34,720
night delivering all these presents

655
00:25:38,549 --> 00:25:36,400
parking his reindeer and sled on the

656
00:25:40,310 --> 00:25:38,559
snowy rooftops while he climbs down

657
00:25:42,470 --> 00:25:40,320
chimneys to leave a present at the foot

658
00:25:44,149 --> 00:25:42,480
of each child's bed

659
00:25:45,990 --> 00:25:44,159
it always snows for father christmas

660
00:25:47,830 --> 00:25:46,000
even though we might not see it

661
00:25:49,269 --> 00:25:47,840
even in australia

662
00:25:51,190 --> 00:25:49,279
if the children leave stockings hunt

663
00:25:52,789 --> 00:25:51,200
from the bedpost or mantlepiece father

664
00:25:54,070 --> 00:25:52,799
christmas will obligingly stuff the

665
00:25:55,590 --> 00:25:54,080
presents in them

666
00:25:57,430 --> 00:25:55,600
some houses don't have chimneys these

667
00:25:59,909 --> 00:25:57,440
days but that's okay because father

668
00:26:01,990 --> 00:25:59,919
christmas magic can still get him in

669
00:26:03,430 --> 00:26:02,000
though i can't say how

670
00:26:04,789 --> 00:26:03,440
the presents are only for those children

671
00:26:06,470 --> 00:26:04,799
who have been good

672
00:26:08,630 --> 00:26:06,480
fortunately since every child is

673
00:26:10,390 --> 00:26:08,640
basically really good deep down there's

674
00:26:12,230 --> 00:26:10,400
never been any need for father christmas

675
00:26:13,669 --> 00:26:12,240
to miss out a child

676
00:26:15,590 --> 00:26:13,679
children soon learn that there is no

677
00:26:17,269 --> 00:26:15,600
point trying to stay awake to catch a

678
00:26:19,269 --> 00:26:17,279
glimpse of father christmas because he

679
00:26:20,870 --> 00:26:19,279
never visits until each child in the

680
00:26:22,789 --> 00:26:20,880
house is sound asleep

681
00:26:24,789 --> 00:26:22,799
and if ever a child does

682
00:26:26,789 --> 00:26:24,799
rouse and catch a parent fumbling among

683
00:26:28,630 --> 00:26:26,799
the presents it's only mummy or daddy

684
00:26:31,590 --> 00:26:28,640
making sure that all the snow has been

685
00:26:33,029 --> 00:26:31,600
brushed off so the toys won't get wet no

686
00:26:35,110 --> 00:26:33,039
matter how many children there are

687
00:26:37,669 --> 00:26:35,120
father christmas always has enough time

688
00:26:39,990 --> 00:26:37,679
to visit each and every one

689
00:26:42,710 --> 00:26:40,000
children customarily ask their mother

690
00:26:45,190 --> 00:26:42,720
for a mince pie and a glass of sherry to

691
00:26:46,789 --> 00:26:45,200
leave for father christmas to eat after

692
00:26:48,789 --> 00:26:46,799
leaving their presents and before

693
00:26:50,149 --> 00:26:48,799
proceeding to the next house

694
00:26:51,830 --> 00:26:50,159
personally we came from a more

695
00:26:53,350 --> 00:26:51,840
working-class family family left him a

696
00:26:55,430 --> 00:26:53,360
beer

697
00:26:57,190 --> 00:26:55,440
no sherry in our house

698
00:26:58,310 --> 00:26:57,200
so no wonder father christmas is so

699
00:26:59,669 --> 00:26:58,320
tubby

700
00:27:01,669 --> 00:26:59,679
but if your mother suggests leaving a

701
00:27:03,110 --> 00:27:01,679
beer in a sausage or a squash and a

702
00:27:05,190 --> 00:27:03,120
sandwich instead

703
00:27:07,110 --> 00:27:05,200
don't worry because mothers know best a

704
00:27:09,029 --> 00:27:07,120
character or two for the reindeer is

705
00:27:10,710 --> 00:27:09,039
always welcome too

706
00:27:12,470 --> 00:27:10,720
after his long night delivering presents

707
00:27:14,549 --> 00:27:12,480
father christmas returns to his home at

708
00:27:16,310 --> 00:27:14,559
the north pole he spends all the next

709
00:27:18,470 --> 00:27:16,320
year preparing for the next christmas

710
00:27:20,950 --> 00:27:18,480
with the help of busy elves making more

711
00:27:22,950 --> 00:27:20,960
presents for every boy and child

712
00:27:24,630 --> 00:27:22,960
in the days leading up to christmas your

713
00:27:26,950 --> 00:27:24,640
parents may take you to see father

714
00:27:28,789 --> 00:27:26,960
christmas at the shops or he may come to

715
00:27:30,549 --> 00:27:28,799
see you at a children's party

716
00:27:32,230 --> 00:27:30,559
of course most of these are pretend

717
00:27:33,510 --> 00:27:32,240
father christmases

718
00:27:35,590 --> 00:27:33,520
they are really

719
00:27:37,350 --> 00:27:35,600
a kindly father who likes children

720
00:27:39,269 --> 00:27:37,360
dressed up as father christmas to hand

721
00:27:40,789 --> 00:27:39,279
out the presents that's all right

722
00:27:43,110 --> 00:27:40,799
because you can be sure that it's

723
00:27:45,190 --> 00:27:43,120
someone friendly and of course you can

724
00:27:47,750 --> 00:27:45,200
never be really sure who it is under

725
00:27:49,750 --> 00:27:47,760
that false white beard after all it just

726
00:27:51,430 --> 00:27:49,760
might be the real father christmas just

727
00:27:52,950 --> 00:27:51,440
for once

728
00:27:54,549 --> 00:27:52,960
okay that's the story

729
00:27:56,789 --> 00:27:54,559
our modern santa claus or father

730
00:27:58,870 --> 00:27:56,799
christmas is an amalgam of several old

731
00:28:01,510 --> 00:27:58,880
part historical and part mythical

732
00:28:04,549 --> 00:28:01,520
figures from different cultures

733
00:28:05,590 --> 00:28:04,559
nicholas was born in 285

734
00:28:10,549 --> 00:28:05,600
ce

735
00:28:12,070 --> 00:28:10,559
turkey and miraculously could speak from

736
00:28:13,909 --> 00:28:12,080
birth

737
00:28:15,909 --> 00:28:13,919
orphaned early young nicholas gained

738
00:28:18,310 --> 00:28:15,919
fame by giving away all his money and

739
00:28:19,990 --> 00:28:18,320
gold to three poor girls

740
00:28:21,590 --> 00:28:20,000
they may have been sisters

741
00:28:23,669 --> 00:28:21,600
so that they could marry

742
00:28:25,750 --> 00:28:23,679
soon after the bishop admired dreamt

743
00:28:28,070 --> 00:28:25,760
that the next person to enter his church

744
00:28:29,350 --> 00:28:28,080
would himself become a bishop

745
00:28:30,389 --> 00:28:29,360
and the next winter was the young

746
00:28:34,310 --> 00:28:30,399
nicholas

747
00:28:36,310 --> 00:28:34,320
imprisoned by the emperor for defending

748
00:28:37,750 --> 00:28:36,320
the persecuted christians

749
00:28:40,310 --> 00:28:37,760
ten years later the new christian

750
00:28:41,430 --> 00:28:40,320
emperor constantine freed bishop

751
00:28:43,750 --> 00:28:41,440
nicholas

752
00:28:46,149 --> 00:28:43,760
the tall lean and much venerated bishop

753
00:28:49,430 --> 00:28:46,159
nicholas served the people of myra until

754
00:28:51,350 --> 00:28:49,440
he died at about 65 years of age

755
00:28:53,029 --> 00:28:51,360
he was later made a saint when he

756
00:28:55,269 --> 00:28:53,039
appeared to sailors in the midst of a

757
00:28:56,630 --> 00:28:55,279
storm which they feared would sink their

758
00:28:58,630 --> 00:28:56,640
ships

759
00:29:00,310 --> 00:28:58,640
nicholas's appearance miraculously

760
00:29:03,029 --> 00:29:00,320
calmed the weather and the sailors

761
00:29:05,029 --> 00:29:03,039
survived consequently saint nicholas is

762
00:29:06,149 --> 00:29:05,039
the patron saint of sailors throughout

763
00:29:07,990 --> 00:29:06,159
the world

764
00:29:10,710 --> 00:29:08,000
saint nicholas is also the patron saint

765
00:29:12,950 --> 00:29:10,720
of children with his feast day of 6th of

766
00:29:15,350 --> 00:29:12,960
december being particularly celebrated

767
00:29:18,310 --> 00:29:15,360
by the dutch settlers in the new world

768
00:29:21,350 --> 00:29:18,320
where they settled new amsterdam

769
00:29:23,190 --> 00:29:21,360
as new anthony became new york in 1664

770
00:29:25,190 --> 00:29:23,200
with the dominance of british settlers

771
00:29:28,070 --> 00:29:25,200
the new arrivals adopted the tradition

772
00:29:31,269 --> 00:29:28,080
of saint nicholas's gifts for children

773
00:29:32,549 --> 00:29:31,279
with the dutch name sinterklaas becoming

774
00:29:34,710 --> 00:29:32,559
santa claus

775
00:29:35,909 --> 00:29:34,720
and the focus changing from religious to

776
00:29:37,750 --> 00:29:35,919
mythical

777
00:29:39,750 --> 00:29:37,760
the traditional gift-giving of saint

778
00:29:42,149 --> 00:29:39,760
nicholas's day was merged with jesus

779
00:29:44,789 --> 00:29:42,159
christ's official birthday christmas day

780
00:29:46,789 --> 00:29:44,799
on the 25th of december with santa claus

781
00:29:48,230 --> 00:29:46,799
distributing his presence on christmas

782
00:29:50,389 --> 00:29:48,240
eve

783
00:29:52,630 --> 00:29:50,399
our modern american santa claus is based

784
00:29:54,470 --> 00:29:52,640
on a children's poem a visit of saint

785
00:29:55,510 --> 00:29:54,480
nicholas also known as the night before

786
00:29:58,070 --> 00:29:55,520
christmas

787
00:30:02,310 --> 00:29:58,080
written by a professor of divinity dr

788
00:30:04,389 --> 00:30:02,320
clement clarke moore in 1822 in new york

789
00:30:06,470 --> 00:30:04,399
this poem was itself based on washington

790
00:30:09,350 --> 00:30:06,480
irving's accounts of saint nicholas

791
00:30:11,350 --> 00:30:09,360
gleaned from dutch settlers in new york

792
00:30:13,750 --> 00:30:11,360
moore's palm included the sled pulled by

793
00:30:15,750 --> 00:30:13,760
reindeer each of which were named and

794
00:30:17,750 --> 00:30:15,760
the delivery of presence by descending

795
00:30:20,310 --> 00:30:17,760
chimneys on christmas eve

796
00:30:22,630 --> 00:30:20,320
it is in moore's poem that the tall and

797
00:30:25,029 --> 00:30:22,640
lean saint nicholas became an elf and

798
00:30:27,190 --> 00:30:25,039
short tubby and married father christmas

799
00:30:29,430 --> 00:30:27,200
familiar to us all

800
00:30:32,470 --> 00:30:29,440
cartoons by thomas nast published in

801
00:30:34,789 --> 00:30:32,480
harper's weekly in the 1860s to 1880s

802
00:30:37,909 --> 00:30:34,799
and large santa to full size and

803
00:30:40,149 --> 00:30:37,919
bolstered his new plump and jovial image

804
00:30:43,990 --> 00:30:40,159
john tenua's cartoons in punch christmas

805
00:30:45,990 --> 00:30:44,000
issues from 1875 to 1889 did a similar

806
00:30:48,149 --> 00:30:46,000
service for english readers

807
00:30:49,990 --> 00:30:48,159
l frank boehm author of the wizard of oz

808
00:30:51,750 --> 00:30:50,000
gave santa claus a complete history in

809
00:30:53,669 --> 00:30:51,760
his the life and adventures of santa

810
00:30:56,310 --> 00:30:53,679
claus though settling him in laughing

811
00:30:58,549 --> 00:30:56,320
valley instead of the north pole

812
00:31:00,950 --> 00:30:58,559
these three new yorkers more nice and

813
00:31:02,630 --> 00:31:00,960
bomb contributed their best parts to our

814
00:31:04,230 --> 00:31:02,640
contemporary version

815
00:31:06,070 --> 00:31:04,240
and so our modern myth of father

816
00:31:08,149 --> 00:31:06,080
christmas is complete

817
00:31:10,470 --> 00:31:08,159
elsewhere the local equivalent of father

818
00:31:12,389 --> 00:31:10,480
christmas is a very different character

819
00:31:14,710 --> 00:31:12,399
in holland and germany on the eve of

820
00:31:17,029 --> 00:31:14,720
saint nicholas's day sinterklaas still

821
00:31:19,509 --> 00:31:17,039
arrives from spain by ship in a white

822
00:31:23,110 --> 00:31:19,519
robe and red cassock with his moorish

823
00:31:25,029 --> 00:31:23,120
assistant zvarta pete black peter the

824
00:31:27,029 --> 00:31:25,039
dutch children leave hay carrots and

825
00:31:28,230 --> 00:31:27,039
water in their shoes before the

826
00:31:30,710 --> 00:31:28,240
fireplace

827
00:31:31,750 --> 00:31:30,720
for center classes or sinterklaas white

828
00:31:33,830 --> 00:31:31,760
horse

829
00:31:35,590 --> 00:31:33,840
and in the morning they find instead

830
00:31:37,590 --> 00:31:35,600
sweets and presents

831
00:31:39,830 --> 00:31:37,600
unseen the horse gallops from roof to

832
00:31:41,430 --> 00:31:39,840
roof and the moor scrambles down the

833
00:31:43,110 --> 00:31:41,440
chimneys to gather the food for the

834
00:31:44,070 --> 00:31:43,120
horse and leave presents with the

835
00:31:46,149 --> 00:31:44,080
children

836
00:31:48,710 --> 00:31:46,159
sinterklaas has to keep his super white

837
00:31:50,470 --> 00:31:48,720
robe clean and so it just drops sweets

838
00:31:52,710 --> 00:31:50,480
down the chimney for the children in

839
00:31:54,950 --> 00:31:52,720
italy the christmas myth is that the

840
00:31:57,830 --> 00:31:54,960
three wise men asked the good witch

841
00:32:00,389 --> 00:31:57,840
buffana to accompany them to bethlehem

842
00:32:02,470 --> 00:32:00,399
but bufana foolishly declined being far

843
00:32:04,710 --> 00:32:02,480
too busy with her housework

844
00:32:06,549 --> 00:32:04,720
regretting her decision perfana has

845
00:32:08,789 --> 00:32:06,559
wandered ever since seeking the holy

846
00:32:10,870 --> 00:32:08,799
child sliding down the chimneys every

847
00:32:12,710 --> 00:32:10,880
twelfth night in england father

848
00:32:15,669 --> 00:32:12,720
christmas wears a red suit trimmed with

849
00:32:17,830 --> 00:32:15,679
white fur and in france it is pair noel

850
00:32:20,149 --> 00:32:17,840
bringing the children's presence

851
00:32:21,110 --> 00:32:20,159
in germany chris kringle or christ's

852
00:32:23,590 --> 00:32:21,120
child

853
00:32:26,149 --> 00:32:23,600
is a fairy in spain the three wise men

854
00:32:28,310 --> 00:32:26,159
each looking like a familiar jovial

855
00:32:31,509 --> 00:32:28,320
father christmas bring the presents you

856
00:32:33,669 --> 00:32:31,519
know russia an evil old woman baba yaga

857
00:32:36,549 --> 00:32:33,679
deliberately misdirected the three wise

858
00:32:38,070 --> 00:32:36,559
men in new russia grandfather frost

859
00:32:39,430 --> 00:32:38,080
brings the presence

860
00:32:41,750 --> 00:32:39,440
whichever father christmas you are

861
00:32:44,149 --> 00:32:41,760
expecting it has become widely expected

862
00:32:45,669 --> 00:32:44,159
that christmas is a time of presence

863
00:32:47,909 --> 00:32:45,679
god gave the people of the earth the

864
00:32:49,830 --> 00:32:47,919
gift of his son jesus christ the three

865
00:32:51,909 --> 00:32:49,840
wise men gave the christ child their

866
00:32:54,710 --> 00:32:51,919
birthday gifts of gold frankincense and

867
00:32:56,470 --> 00:32:54,720
myrrh now parents relatives and friends

868
00:32:58,710 --> 00:32:56,480
celebrate this greatest gift of all with

869
00:33:00,789 --> 00:32:58,720
their own gifts to each other so watch

870
00:33:03,110 --> 00:33:00,799
out for father christmas visit to your

871
00:33:05,029 --> 00:33:03,120
house enjoy his gifts to you and

872
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:05,039
remember god's gift to jesus christ that

873
00:33:10,710 --> 00:33:06,810
they celebrate

874
00:33:13,590 --> 00:33:12,230
that's the end of part one of this

875
00:33:15,509 --> 00:33:13,600
article in the next part we're looking

876
00:33:17,190 --> 00:33:15,519
at the trappings of christmas

877
00:33:19,750 --> 00:33:17,200
and all the appertances that are

878
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:19,760
associated with santa claus and the

879
00:33:26,950 --> 00:33:25,830
[Music]

880
00:33:29,830 --> 00:33:26,960
and that's

881
00:33:32,310 --> 00:33:29,840
father figure from the skeptic magazine

882
00:33:34,310 --> 00:33:32,320
december 2015

883
00:33:36,310 --> 00:33:34,320
which is volume 35

884
00:33:38,310 --> 00:33:36,320
number four and you can download that

885
00:33:39,430 --> 00:33:38,320
issue of the magazine from our website

886
00:33:42,030 --> 00:33:39,440
for free

887
00:33:48,549 --> 00:33:42,040
from skeptics.com.eu

888
00:33:53,110 --> 00:33:50,149
it's very religious at the end it's a

889
00:33:54,470 --> 00:33:53,120
bit religious at the end isn't it

890
00:33:56,789 --> 00:33:54,480
that's okay it's part of the religious

891
00:33:59,110 --> 00:33:56,799
yeah it's it's history i know it's it's

892
00:34:03,970 --> 00:33:59,120
history it's incompetent

893
00:34:03,980 --> 00:34:17,669
[Music]

894
00:34:21,430 --> 00:34:19,829
hello this is maynard did you know that

895
00:34:24,869 --> 00:34:21,440
you could listen to the skeptic zone on

896
00:34:29,510 --> 00:34:24,879
youtube yes i know sounds crazy but it's

897
00:34:34,389 --> 00:34:32,069
also you can hear 40 logical fallacies

898
00:34:35,909 --> 00:34:34,399
with michelle bigesma and funny sketches

899
00:34:39,109 --> 00:34:35,919
with richard saunders and a host of

900
00:34:52,610 --> 00:34:40,790
just click on the youtube links on the

901
00:35:01,890 --> 00:35:00,550
[Music]

902
00:35:03,109 --> 00:35:01,900
yeah

903
00:35:05,270 --> 00:35:03,119
[Music]

904
00:35:09,349 --> 00:35:05,280
now it's time once again to look for

905
00:35:11,270 --> 00:35:09,359
digital archives in digital archives

906
00:35:12,390 --> 00:35:11,280
the trove segment normally we look at

907
00:35:14,150 --> 00:35:12,400
trove

908
00:35:15,510 --> 00:35:14,160
the online resource from the australian

909
00:35:17,750 --> 00:35:15,520
government and the national library of

910
00:35:19,829 --> 00:35:17,760
australia full of digitized newspapers

911
00:35:21,270 --> 00:35:19,839
fully searchable

912
00:35:22,790 --> 00:35:21,280
i really should work for the trove

913
00:35:25,510 --> 00:35:22,800
people

914
00:35:27,430 --> 00:35:25,520
i think it's fascinating

915
00:35:28,870 --> 00:35:27,440
now as we sometimes do or look further

916
00:35:31,190 --> 00:35:28,880
afield

917
00:35:33,510 --> 00:35:31,200
in fact all the way across the

918
00:35:35,750 --> 00:35:33,520
pacific ocean to the united states

919
00:35:38,470 --> 00:35:35,760
and we'll look at some references to the

920
00:35:40,470 --> 00:35:38,480
paranormal supernatural skepticism all

921
00:35:43,990 --> 00:35:40,480
that sort of stuff and our first port of

922
00:35:46,870 --> 00:35:44,000
call comes from alaska i went to alaska

923
00:35:47,910 --> 00:35:46,880
now what year was that 2007

924
00:35:50,310 --> 00:35:47,920
on

925
00:35:52,069 --> 00:35:50,320
the amazing cruise the amazing adventure

926
00:35:54,630 --> 00:35:52,079
with james randy

927
00:35:56,950 --> 00:35:54,640
wow what a fabulous time that was

928
00:35:59,030 --> 00:35:56,960
what a fabulous time that was walking

929
00:36:00,710 --> 00:35:59,040
around alaska being on the ship with a

930
00:36:03,190 --> 00:36:00,720
ship full of skeptics

931
00:36:05,910 --> 00:36:03,200
and spending a very valuable time with

932
00:36:09,349 --> 00:36:05,920
james randy happy memories anyway

933
00:36:13,990 --> 00:36:09,359
from the daily news miner

934
00:36:16,710 --> 00:36:14,000
dated the 9th of june 1985

935
00:36:18,630 --> 00:36:16,720
1985 just before

936
00:36:21,109 --> 00:36:18,640
just before i got my first job out of

937
00:36:22,470 --> 00:36:21,119
high school

938
00:36:25,109 --> 00:36:22,480
that sort of

939
00:36:26,630 --> 00:36:25,119
dates it for me

940
00:36:29,349 --> 00:36:26,640
a little bit anyway

941
00:36:30,790 --> 00:36:29,359
and this is a story by bob

942
00:36:32,870 --> 00:36:30,800
devorcek

943
00:36:37,589 --> 00:36:32,880
and it's titled

944
00:36:42,069 --> 00:36:38,870
pittsburgh

945
00:36:45,910 --> 00:36:42,079
for people who claim they can levitate

946
00:36:48,470 --> 00:36:45,920
predict the future make dogs talk bend

947
00:36:50,790 --> 00:36:48,480
spoons with their minds or grow beards

948
00:36:54,630 --> 00:36:50,800
with psychic powers

949
00:36:55,670 --> 00:36:54,640
a skeptical band of sleuths says prove

950
00:36:57,430 --> 00:36:55,680
it

951
00:36:59,270 --> 00:36:57,440
the cold light of science is being

952
00:37:01,190 --> 00:36:59,280
turned on people claiming supernatural

953
00:37:03,750 --> 00:37:01,200
powers by a network of scientists

954
00:37:06,069 --> 00:37:03,760
psychologists and magicians the better

955
00:37:08,310 --> 00:37:06,079
to spot sleight of hand and chicanery

956
00:37:10,390 --> 00:37:08,320
some groups are even offering cash if

957
00:37:13,030 --> 00:37:10,400
such claims can be validated we are

958
00:37:14,870 --> 00:37:13,040
truth seekers says richard bush a

959
00:37:17,750 --> 00:37:14,880
magician hypnotist

960
00:37:20,310 --> 00:37:17,760
and mentalist who is the chairman of the

961
00:37:23,430 --> 00:37:20,320
paranormal investigating committee of

962
00:37:26,230 --> 00:37:23,440
pittsburgh we don't have an axe to grind

963
00:37:28,550 --> 00:37:26,240
we're not out to embarrass anyone but

964
00:37:31,349 --> 00:37:28,560
any claims ought to be backed up by

965
00:37:34,069 --> 00:37:31,359
evidence bush's committee offers five

966
00:37:36,390 --> 00:37:34,079
thousand dollars cash prize

967
00:37:38,630 --> 00:37:36,400
for anyone who can perform a paranormal

968
00:37:43,109 --> 00:37:38,640
claim under scientific conditions

969
00:37:44,870 --> 00:37:43,119
in three years it has probed 47 claims

970
00:37:49,349 --> 00:37:44,880
and received hundreds of calls and

971
00:37:52,150 --> 00:37:49,359
letters without paying up one woman said

972
00:37:53,190 --> 00:37:52,160
she could grow a beard through mental

973
00:37:55,510 --> 00:37:53,200
powers

974
00:37:57,750 --> 00:37:55,520
a man in texas said he could make

975
00:38:01,109 --> 00:37:57,760
barking dogs talk

976
00:38:02,950 --> 00:38:01,119
another claimed his magnetic waves could

977
00:38:06,069 --> 00:38:02,960
sexually arouse women

978
00:38:08,390 --> 00:38:06,079
while giving headaches to men

979
00:38:09,829 --> 00:38:08,400
a doctor said he could strengthen or

980
00:38:12,310 --> 00:38:09,839
weaken muscles

981
00:38:14,150 --> 00:38:12,320
with lines of force

982
00:38:16,790 --> 00:38:14,160
after three years

983
00:38:20,150 --> 00:38:16,800
we still have all the money bush says

984
00:38:21,670 --> 00:38:20,160
the answer begins to be maybe they can't

985
00:38:25,510 --> 00:38:21,680
do what they say

986
00:38:28,470 --> 00:38:25,520
worldwide about 290 000

987
00:38:31,510 --> 00:38:28,480
is dangled by separate groups and

988
00:38:33,990 --> 00:38:31,520
individuals probing paranormals bush

989
00:38:35,510 --> 00:38:34,000
says the pittsburgh group is part of the

990
00:38:37,430 --> 00:38:35,520
international committee for the

991
00:38:38,710 --> 00:38:37,440
scientific investigation of claims of

992
00:38:41,109 --> 00:38:38,720
the paranormal

993
00:38:44,150 --> 00:38:41,119
cycop which was founded nine years ago

994
00:38:47,030 --> 00:38:44,160
in buffalo new york cycop has 300

995
00:38:49,510 --> 00:38:47,040
members such as astronomer carl sagan

996
00:38:52,150 --> 00:38:49,520
and psychology professor b.f skinner of

997
00:38:55,190 --> 00:38:52,160
harvard university it publishes the

998
00:38:57,750 --> 00:38:55,200
skeptical inquirer a quarterly magazine

999
00:39:00,470 --> 00:38:57,760
with a circulation of twenty thousand in

1000
00:39:02,630 --> 00:39:00,480
simple terms they are debunkers who

1001
00:39:04,150 --> 00:39:02,640
demand the same standards of proof from

1002
00:39:06,230 --> 00:39:04,160
psychics as required for other

1003
00:39:08,550 --> 00:39:06,240
scientific discovery

1004
00:39:11,349 --> 00:39:08,560
they have investigated faith healers

1005
00:39:13,589 --> 00:39:11,359
poltergeists telepaths astrologers

1006
00:39:15,349 --> 00:39:13,599
mystics ufos bigfoots and other

1007
00:39:17,430 --> 00:39:15,359
supernatural happenings

1008
00:39:19,510 --> 00:39:17,440
these claims are as unsinkable as rubber

1009
00:39:22,069 --> 00:39:19,520
ducks at a shooting gallery says paul

1010
00:39:24,710 --> 00:39:22,079
kurtz philosophy professor at the state

1011
00:39:26,870 --> 00:39:24,720
university of new york at buffalo who is

1012
00:39:29,670 --> 00:39:26,880
chairman of cycop you can never shoot

1013
00:39:31,430 --> 00:39:29,680
them down they're always popping back up

1014
00:39:35,030 --> 00:39:31,440
the only therapy is a little common

1015
00:39:37,430 --> 00:39:35,040
sense the debunker's creed kurtz says is

1016
00:39:39,510 --> 00:39:37,440
the burden of proof rests on the

1017
00:39:41,910 --> 00:39:39,520
claimants we're disturbed about the

1018
00:39:43,510 --> 00:39:41,920
growth of irrationality and

1019
00:39:46,150 --> 00:39:43,520
pseudoscience

1020
00:39:48,630 --> 00:39:46,160
paranormal is the new folk religion we

1021
00:39:51,190 --> 00:39:48,640
believe an obligation to the public to

1022
00:39:53,670 --> 00:39:51,200
separate the wheat from the chaff

1023
00:39:54,870 --> 00:39:53,680
it is important to have a skeptical

1024
00:39:57,589 --> 00:39:54,880
point of view

1025
00:40:01,670 --> 00:39:57,599
last year cycop investigated a reported

1026
00:40:04,630 --> 00:40:01,680
poltergeist in columbus ohio a teenager

1027
00:40:06,710 --> 00:40:04,640
claimed lamps and telephones were flying

1028
00:40:11,109 --> 00:40:06,720
about her house while lights and water

1029
00:40:13,030 --> 00:40:11,119
spigots turned on and off probers were

1030
00:40:15,510 --> 00:40:13,040
not allowed inside the house but

1031
00:40:18,470 --> 00:40:15,520
witnesses say they never saw an object

1032
00:40:20,309 --> 00:40:18,480
actually take off and a tv crew filmed

1033
00:40:22,150 --> 00:40:20,319
the teen

1034
00:40:23,829 --> 00:40:22,160
knocking over a lamp

1035
00:40:27,270 --> 00:40:23,839
finding no evidence to support the

1036
00:40:30,870 --> 00:40:27,280
claims the committee ruled it a hoax

1037
00:40:33,750 --> 00:40:30,880
last november cycops sent letters to 1

1038
00:40:36,710 --> 00:40:33,760
800 newspapers asking them to print this

1039
00:40:39,030 --> 00:40:36,720
disclaimer with astrology columns the

1040
00:40:41,670 --> 00:40:39,040
following astrological forecast should

1041
00:40:44,150 --> 00:40:41,680
be read for entertainment value only

1042
00:40:46,630 --> 00:40:44,160
these predictions have no reliable basis

1043
00:40:48,230 --> 00:40:46,640
in scientific fact five newspapers

1044
00:40:50,790 --> 00:40:48,240
complied

1045
00:40:53,990 --> 00:40:50,800
the debunkers admit the public sometimes

1046
00:40:57,190 --> 00:40:54,000
views them as heavy-handed

1047
00:40:59,670 --> 00:40:57,200
know-it-alls spoiling harm is fun

1048
00:41:02,870 --> 00:40:59,680
after all what could be the harm in

1049
00:41:05,430 --> 00:41:02,880
going to a fortune teller or palmist it

1050
00:41:07,910 --> 00:41:05,440
is harmful bush says

1051
00:41:10,870 --> 00:41:07,920
people are paying with their belief

1052
00:41:13,190 --> 00:41:10,880
system we must not let the public think

1053
00:41:15,750 --> 00:41:13,200
there is a simple magical solution to

1054
00:41:16,630 --> 00:41:15,760
life in the stars or the palm of your

1055
00:41:19,270 --> 00:41:16,640
hand

1056
00:41:21,750 --> 00:41:19,280
it's a delusion it teaches people not to

1057
00:41:23,270 --> 00:41:21,760
be self-reliant it teaches people to be

1058
00:41:25,829 --> 00:41:23,280
anti-scientific

1059
00:41:28,550 --> 00:41:25,839
cold critical answers are duller than

1060
00:41:32,550 --> 00:41:28,560
supernatural however some people see us

1061
00:41:33,910 --> 00:41:32,560
as killjoys says dr donald mcburney a

1062
00:41:36,069 --> 00:41:33,920
professor of psychology at the

1063
00:41:37,510 --> 00:41:36,079
university of pittsburgh and a local

1064
00:41:39,589 --> 00:41:37,520
debunker

1065
00:41:42,230 --> 00:41:39,599
there is a natural bias in favor of the

1066
00:41:45,349 --> 00:41:42,240
simple explanation over the complicated

1067
00:41:48,309 --> 00:41:45,359
hard to understand one not every mystic

1068
00:41:50,150 --> 00:41:48,319
or psychic is a charlatan intentionally

1069
00:41:51,990 --> 00:41:50,160
hoodwinking a gullible public the

1070
00:41:54,069 --> 00:41:52,000
debunkers say

1071
00:41:56,109 --> 00:41:54,079
they present a hui award every april

1072
00:41:58,790 --> 00:41:56,119
fool's day to those who promote

1073
00:42:00,150 --> 00:41:58,800
irrationality winners are notified

1074
00:42:03,109 --> 00:42:00,160
telepathically

1075
00:42:05,670 --> 00:42:03,119
most of them are not frauds bush says

1076
00:42:07,670 --> 00:42:05,680
they are self-deceived misguided people

1077
00:42:10,150 --> 00:42:07,680
they got fooled themselves into

1078
00:42:13,109 --> 00:42:10,160
believing bush is one of the few

1079
00:42:15,670 --> 00:42:13,119
magicians who serves as a scientific and

1080
00:42:17,510 --> 00:42:15,680
technical consultant to cycop everything

1081
00:42:20,069 --> 00:42:17,520
i do as a magician is based on

1082
00:42:22,630 --> 00:42:20,079
scientific principles much says there's

1083
00:42:24,069 --> 00:42:22,640
no psychic claim i only claim to be an

1084
00:42:26,630 --> 00:42:24,079
entertainer

1085
00:42:29,190 --> 00:42:26,640
scientists realize they need to have a

1086
00:42:32,309 --> 00:42:29,200
magician present in case there is a

1087
00:42:35,270 --> 00:42:32,319
deception a brain surgeon can't go to a

1088
00:42:37,750 --> 00:42:35,280
poker game and decide who's cheating

1089
00:42:40,309 --> 00:42:37,760
when a person makes a claim with the

1090
00:42:43,430 --> 00:42:40,319
local committee ground rules are agreed

1091
00:42:44,390 --> 00:42:43,440
upon in writing and the debunkers call

1092
00:42:46,950 --> 00:42:44,400
upon

1093
00:42:49,430 --> 00:42:46,960
physicists engineers linguists or

1094
00:42:51,910 --> 00:42:49,440
magicians to witness the demonstration

1095
00:42:54,630 --> 00:42:51,920
bush issued a plea for anyone with

1096
00:42:56,470 --> 00:42:54,640
supernatural ability to contact him

1097
00:42:59,430 --> 00:42:56,480
those who sincerely believe that they

1098
00:43:01,030 --> 00:42:59,440
can perform psychic phenomenon are urged

1099
00:43:04,069 --> 00:43:01,040
to come forward for the benefit of

1100
00:43:05,829 --> 00:43:04,079
science he says i'm not a believer

1101
00:43:08,230 --> 00:43:05,839
i'm not a disbeliever

1102
00:43:10,710 --> 00:43:08,240
i'm a skeptic and the photograph

1103
00:43:11,750 --> 00:43:10,720
accompanying the article is of richard

1104
00:43:13,750 --> 00:43:11,760
bush

1105
00:43:17,750 --> 00:43:13,760
with a heavy beard

1106
00:43:20,630 --> 00:43:17,760
brown glasses and he is examining a

1107
00:43:23,030 --> 00:43:20,640
recently bent spoon with a comical look

1108
00:43:25,030 --> 00:43:23,040
on his face truth seeker magician

1109
00:43:27,190 --> 00:43:25,040
hypnotist and mentalist richard bush

1110
00:43:29,430 --> 00:43:27,200
takes a quizzical look at a ben spoon in

1111
00:43:31,349 --> 00:43:29,440
his pittsburgh apartment bush is

1112
00:43:33,030 --> 00:43:31,359
chairman of the paranormal investigating

1113
00:43:35,510 --> 00:43:33,040
committee of pittsburgh one of the

1114
00:43:37,190 --> 00:43:35,520
groups of skeptics worldwide who probe

1115
00:43:40,309 --> 00:43:37,200
paranormal claims

1116
00:43:42,550 --> 00:43:40,319
we are truth seekers he says

1117
00:43:44,630 --> 00:43:42,560
associated press photo

1118
00:43:47,030 --> 00:43:44,640
and now we'll skip ahead some years to

1119
00:43:50,069 --> 00:43:47,040
the year 1990

1120
00:43:52,230 --> 00:43:50,079
sunday the 7th of january in the orange

1121
00:43:55,349 --> 00:43:52,240
county register

1122
00:43:58,150 --> 00:43:55,359
and this is by stephen mason

1123
00:43:59,990 --> 00:43:58,160
under the subtitle of look at it this

1124
00:44:02,069 --> 00:44:00,000
way

1125
00:44:03,270 --> 00:44:02,079
knowing and believing are two different

1126
00:44:05,510 --> 00:44:03,280
things

1127
00:44:07,589 --> 00:44:05,520
a while back i was asked to speak at a

1128
00:44:10,150 --> 00:44:07,599
convention sponsored by the committee

1129
00:44:11,990 --> 00:44:10,160
for the scientific investigation of

1130
00:44:14,550 --> 00:44:12,000
claims of the paranormal

1131
00:44:17,829 --> 00:44:14,560
i couldn't have asked for better company

1132
00:44:19,990 --> 00:44:17,839
penn teller james the amazing randy and

1133
00:44:22,550 --> 00:44:20,000
carl sagan joined dozens of other

1134
00:44:24,630 --> 00:44:22,560
notables from science and education in a

1135
00:44:27,109 --> 00:44:24,640
three-day review of everything from fire

1136
00:44:28,390 --> 00:44:27,119
walking to spontaneous combustion of

1137
00:44:30,790 --> 00:44:28,400
humans

1138
00:44:33,750 --> 00:44:30,800
i was impressed by their debunking of so

1139
00:44:36,710 --> 00:44:33,760
many mysteries that on investigation

1140
00:44:38,150 --> 00:44:36,720
turned out to be anything but

1141
00:44:40,870 --> 00:44:38,160
mysterious

1142
00:44:42,470 --> 00:44:40,880
and while we're on the subject

1143
00:44:44,470 --> 00:44:42,480
how do you feel

1144
00:44:45,589 --> 00:44:44,480
about the paranormal

1145
00:44:46,950 --> 00:44:45,599
answer

1146
00:44:48,230 --> 00:44:46,960
yes

1147
00:44:51,910 --> 00:44:48,240
no

1148
00:44:54,309 --> 00:44:51,920
or maybe do you believe in

1149
00:44:56,470 --> 00:44:54,319
witchcraft

1150
00:44:59,109 --> 00:44:56,480
esp

1151
00:45:01,750 --> 00:44:59,119
life on other planets

1152
00:45:04,069 --> 00:45:01,760
life after death

1153
00:45:05,430 --> 00:45:04,079
loch ness monster

1154
00:45:07,270 --> 00:45:05,440
god

1155
00:45:08,870 --> 00:45:07,280
angels

1156
00:45:11,109 --> 00:45:08,880
ghosts

1157
00:45:12,950 --> 00:45:11,119
astrology

1158
00:45:14,790 --> 00:45:12,960
the committee people don't think much of

1159
00:45:17,589 --> 00:45:14,800
parapsychology

1160
00:45:20,390 --> 00:45:17,599
and claims of the paranormal

1161
00:45:23,030 --> 00:45:20,400
their journal the skeptical inquirer

1162
00:45:24,950 --> 00:45:23,040
regularly reports on topics from the

1163
00:45:28,790 --> 00:45:24,960
face on mars

1164
00:45:31,430 --> 00:45:28,800
to the efficacy of ion therapy

1165
00:45:34,150 --> 00:45:31,440
their research is most impressive

1166
00:45:37,589 --> 00:45:34,160
and if you want a mailing address drop

1167
00:45:41,030 --> 00:45:37,599
me a note and i'll forward the same

1168
00:45:43,349 --> 00:45:41,040
they find it especially vexing that even

1169
00:45:45,589 --> 00:45:43,359
after science has contributed so much to

1170
00:45:48,230 --> 00:45:45,599
man's knowledge the media should give

1171
00:45:50,550 --> 00:45:48,240
time and space to psychics mystics and

1172
00:45:52,069 --> 00:45:50,560
assorted new age proponents

1173
00:45:52,950 --> 00:45:52,079
they complain

1174
00:45:55,030 --> 00:45:52,960
too

1175
00:45:57,430 --> 00:45:55,040
that people in general tend not to be

1176
00:45:58,950 --> 00:45:57,440
sufficiently critical of these

1177
00:46:01,430 --> 00:45:58,960
practitioners

1178
00:46:03,589 --> 00:46:01,440
and they argued that because even

1179
00:46:05,589 --> 00:46:03,599
legitimate researchers can be led astray

1180
00:46:08,790 --> 00:46:05,599
by skilled sleight of hand

1181
00:46:11,589 --> 00:46:08,800
a trained magician should oversee any

1182
00:46:14,069 --> 00:46:11,599
and all tests of paranormal claims

1183
00:46:16,390 --> 00:46:14,079
as a psychologist i can see two good

1184
00:46:18,309 --> 00:46:16,400
reasons for the emphasis on things that

1185
00:46:21,030 --> 00:46:18,319
go bump in the night

1186
00:46:23,750 --> 00:46:21,040
one is that while science has removed

1187
00:46:26,309 --> 00:46:23,760
many of our naive and superstitious

1188
00:46:30,069 --> 00:46:26,319
beliefs it hasn't really left anything

1189
00:46:31,750 --> 00:46:30,079
in their place for centuries humanity

1190
00:46:32,790 --> 00:46:31,760
has been quite comfortable with its

1191
00:46:35,589 --> 00:46:32,800
myths

1192
00:46:39,750 --> 00:46:35,599
indeed they grew out of humanity's basic

1193
00:46:40,550 --> 00:46:39,760
need to make sense of mysterious things

1194
00:46:42,390 --> 00:46:40,560
so

1195
00:46:45,990 --> 00:46:42,400
when a bunch of scientists

1196
00:46:48,710 --> 00:46:46,000
tell say paranormal claims of bogus

1197
00:46:49,829 --> 00:46:48,720
humanity is left in something of a

1198
00:46:53,589 --> 00:46:49,839
vacuum

1199
00:46:56,069 --> 00:46:53,599
if for example there are no angels

1200
00:46:58,309 --> 00:46:56,079
who's going to watch over humanity

1201
00:47:00,390 --> 00:46:58,319
science doesn't want the job it freely

1202
00:47:03,670 --> 00:47:00,400
admits its limitations

1203
00:47:05,109 --> 00:47:03,680
and the second reason is that scientists

1204
00:47:06,710 --> 00:47:05,119
typically lack

1205
00:47:09,190 --> 00:47:06,720
pizzazz

1206
00:47:13,109 --> 00:47:09,200
as a group they tend to be

1207
00:47:14,950 --> 00:47:13,119
a whole lot better with a test tube

1208
00:47:16,950 --> 00:47:14,960
than a microphone

1209
00:47:20,390 --> 00:47:16,960
if you want glitz and glamour sex and

1210
00:47:22,630 --> 00:47:20,400
showbiz and who doesn't a guy bending

1211
00:47:24,470 --> 00:47:22,640
spoons and reading minds

1212
00:47:27,190 --> 00:47:24,480
is hard to beat

1213
00:47:29,589 --> 00:47:27,200
now about what you believe if your

1214
00:47:30,390 --> 00:47:29,599
answers corresponded to a written gallup

1215
00:47:35,109 --> 00:47:30,400
poll

1216
00:47:37,510 --> 00:47:35,119
about 20 percent said yes to witchcraft

1217
00:47:39,349 --> 00:47:37,520
with female believers outnumbering males

1218
00:47:42,710 --> 00:47:39,359
by five percent

1219
00:47:44,950 --> 00:47:42,720
esp was even more popular with almost

1220
00:47:46,870 --> 00:47:44,960
half those queried saying they thought

1221
00:47:50,230 --> 00:47:46,880
it was for real

1222
00:47:53,270 --> 00:47:50,240
life on other planets also got a yes

1223
00:47:56,790 --> 00:47:53,280
from about 50 of the population and life

1224
00:47:59,829 --> 00:47:56,800
after death came away with 70 who

1225
00:48:02,470 --> 00:47:59,839
believed dying was just the beginning

1226
00:48:05,910 --> 00:48:02,480
the loch ness monster did less well with

1227
00:48:09,670 --> 00:48:05,920
31 convinced the creature was real ten

1228
00:48:11,589 --> 00:48:09,680
years ago but only 13 percent so

1229
00:48:14,470 --> 00:48:11,599
inclined today

1230
00:48:16,710 --> 00:48:14,480
god is alive according to 95 percent

1231
00:48:19,750 --> 00:48:16,720
although less than 70 percent believed

1232
00:48:20,630 --> 00:48:19,760
in angels and only 15 gave ghosts the

1233
00:48:25,190 --> 00:48:20,640
nod

1234
00:48:27,589 --> 00:48:25,200
down from 20 a decade ago and finally 58

1235
00:48:29,750 --> 00:48:27,599
of women and 48 percent of men said they

1236
00:48:31,190 --> 00:48:29,760
believed in astrology

1237
00:48:33,670 --> 00:48:31,200
look at it this way

1238
00:48:35,109 --> 00:48:33,680
there is a major difference between what

1239
00:48:36,950 --> 00:48:35,119
you know

1240
00:48:39,030 --> 00:48:36,960
and what you believe

1241
00:48:40,870 --> 00:48:39,040
what you know is based on logic and

1242
00:48:44,390 --> 00:48:40,880
intellect what you believe

1243
00:48:45,910 --> 00:48:44,400
is based on faith and emotion

1244
00:48:46,950 --> 00:48:45,920
and to finish off something a bit

1245
00:48:50,630 --> 00:48:46,960
different

1246
00:48:53,270 --> 00:48:50,640
from the times tribune and this was or

1247
00:48:55,829 --> 00:48:53,280
is a newspaper in kentucky

1248
00:48:57,190 --> 00:48:55,839
and we are now in the year 2012 on the

1249
00:48:59,589 --> 00:48:57,200
4th of june

1250
00:49:00,950 --> 00:48:59,599
and the front page the front page of

1251
00:49:02,630 --> 00:49:00,960
this issue

1252
00:49:04,710 --> 00:49:02,640
seeking the supernatural local

1253
00:49:06,630 --> 00:49:04,720
paranormal team investigates mountain

1254
00:49:09,430 --> 00:49:06,640
view lodge

1255
00:49:11,270 --> 00:49:09,440
and i might save this story the whole

1256
00:49:13,349 --> 00:49:11,280
story for another day

1257
00:49:14,150 --> 00:49:13,359
but i'll just read one little section

1258
00:49:16,150 --> 00:49:14,160
here

1259
00:49:18,390 --> 00:49:16,160
so it's about a group of paranormal

1260
00:49:20,549 --> 00:49:18,400
ghost hunters

1261
00:49:21,670 --> 00:49:20,559
and the section i will read from this

1262
00:49:24,950 --> 00:49:21,680
report

1263
00:49:28,230 --> 00:49:24,960
uh is uh here it says

1264
00:49:30,150 --> 00:49:28,240
tools of the ghost hunting trade

1265
00:49:32,710 --> 00:49:30,160
here are some of the tools local ghost

1266
00:49:34,870 --> 00:49:32,720
hunters say are a must when seeking

1267
00:49:36,470 --> 00:49:34,880
signs of the paranormal

1268
00:49:38,150 --> 00:49:36,480
here we go

1269
00:49:39,270 --> 00:49:38,160
digital camera

1270
00:49:41,750 --> 00:49:39,280
makes sense

1271
00:49:42,829 --> 00:49:41,760
infrared camera to pick up energy and

1272
00:49:45,510 --> 00:49:42,839
heat

1273
00:49:47,030 --> 00:49:45,520
signals right

1274
00:49:49,670 --> 00:49:47,040
it's it's interesting it sort of

1275
00:49:50,140 --> 00:49:49,680
presupposes that ghosts somehow

1276
00:49:52,069 --> 00:49:50,150
um

1277
00:49:55,349 --> 00:49:52,079
[Music]

1278
00:49:56,549 --> 00:49:55,359
can emit infrared

1279
00:50:00,069 --> 00:49:56,559
what's next

1280
00:50:02,630 --> 00:50:00,079
laser grid this one is pretty cool it

1281
00:50:04,390 --> 00:50:02,640
casts a laser net across a room or

1282
00:50:06,549 --> 00:50:04,400
hallway showing any

1283
00:50:08,390 --> 00:50:06,559
shadows or objects

1284
00:50:10,069 --> 00:50:08,400
pass through

1285
00:50:12,150 --> 00:50:10,079
the laser beam

1286
00:50:13,829 --> 00:50:12,160
actually i had one of those ones some

1287
00:50:15,589 --> 00:50:13,839
years ago at a paranormal fair i bought

1288
00:50:18,710 --> 00:50:15,599
myself a little kit

1289
00:50:23,190 --> 00:50:19,910
well you know these

1290
00:50:25,030 --> 00:50:23,200
little red lasers you used to buy

1291
00:50:26,549 --> 00:50:25,040
play with the cats or something and you

1292
00:50:28,150 --> 00:50:26,559
put a little attachment on and suddenly

1293
00:50:30,069 --> 00:50:28,160
it produces a

1294
00:50:33,430 --> 00:50:30,079
grid pattern

1295
00:50:35,270 --> 00:50:33,440
uh what's next here radio tuned to an am

1296
00:50:37,910 --> 00:50:35,280
station to provide white noise for

1297
00:50:40,470 --> 00:50:37,920
better electronic voice phenomenon

1298
00:50:43,750 --> 00:50:40,480
evp recordings

1299
00:50:44,790 --> 00:50:43,760
this is also known as a poor man's ghost

1300
00:50:48,630 --> 00:50:44,800
box

1301
00:50:51,030 --> 00:50:48,640
before on the skeptic zone

1302
00:50:52,589 --> 00:50:51,040
what's next digital recorder for evp

1303
00:50:55,589 --> 00:50:52,599
recordings

1304
00:50:58,870 --> 00:50:55,599
electromagnetic field meter emf a

1305
00:51:00,069 --> 00:50:58,880
compass is a cheap emf meter i suppose

1306
00:51:02,950 --> 00:51:00,079
so

1307
00:51:06,549 --> 00:51:04,470
okay

1308
00:51:08,230 --> 00:51:06,559
uh walkie-talkies to stay in contact

1309
00:51:09,990 --> 00:51:08,240
with everyone

1310
00:51:11,589 --> 00:51:10,000
a blessed cross

1311
00:51:14,790 --> 00:51:11,599
just in case

1312
00:51:17,589 --> 00:51:14,800
and most important of all several good

1313
00:51:19,190 --> 00:51:17,599
flashlights and a whole lot of batteries

1314
00:51:20,230 --> 00:51:19,200
as the ghosts

1315
00:51:23,990 --> 00:51:20,240
often

1316
00:51:26,870 --> 00:51:24,870
well

1317
00:51:29,030 --> 00:51:26,880
i didn't know that

1318
00:51:31,589 --> 00:51:29,040
ghosts drain

1319
00:51:33,990 --> 00:51:31,599
batteries and flashlights

1320
00:51:36,150 --> 00:51:34,000
which reminds me of something

1321
00:51:38,069 --> 00:51:36,160
a ufo researcher told me once with a

1322
00:51:41,990 --> 00:51:38,079
straight face

1323
00:51:45,270 --> 00:51:42,000
that ufos can sometimes

1324
00:51:46,950 --> 00:51:45,280
interfere with cameras and that's why

1325
00:51:48,930 --> 00:51:46,960
they didn't get any good photographs

1326
00:51:54,390 --> 00:51:48,940
that night

1327
00:51:56,630 --> 00:51:54,400
[Music]

1328
00:51:58,790 --> 00:51:56,640
so there you go an interesting round up

1329
00:52:01,190 --> 00:51:58,800
from some american papers this week

1330
00:52:04,870 --> 00:52:01,200
looking at various paranormal and

1331
00:52:06,050 --> 00:52:04,880
things to do with cycop and some ghosts

1332
00:52:13,109 --> 00:52:06,060
at the end

1333
00:52:15,190 --> 00:52:13,119
[Music]

1334
00:52:17,430 --> 00:52:15,200
and while this week we were looking more

1335
00:52:18,950 --> 00:52:17,440
or less in american newspapers don't

1336
00:52:20,390 --> 00:52:18,960
forget if you're in australia or

1337
00:52:25,109 --> 00:52:20,400
anywhere in the world

1338
00:52:27,109 --> 00:52:25,119
it's a free knowledge bank you can check

1339
00:52:31,109 --> 00:52:27,119
out the australian newspapers at the

1340
00:52:34,549 --> 00:52:31,119
trove archive at trove.nla.gov.eu

1341
00:52:36,230 --> 00:52:34,559
and you never know you never know

1342
00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:36,240
you never know

1343
00:52:57,910 --> 00:52:38,530
what you might find

1344
00:53:01,030 --> 00:52:59,510
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1345
00:53:03,109 --> 00:53:01,040
zone podcast

1346
00:53:06,470 --> 00:53:03,119
coming up on the next episode of course

1347
00:53:09,109 --> 00:53:06,480
we've got part two of father figure the

1348
00:53:11,510 --> 00:53:09,119
story of santa claus as read by tim

1349
00:53:13,109 --> 00:53:11,520
menden in the book of tim

1350
00:53:15,190 --> 00:53:13,119
we should have the australian skeptic's

1351
00:53:18,710 --> 00:53:15,200
newsletter with adrian hill

1352
00:53:19,910 --> 00:53:18,720
and by popular demand

1353
00:53:23,109 --> 00:53:19,920
sort of

1354
00:53:26,630 --> 00:53:23,119
trove will once again once again look at

1355
00:53:30,069 --> 00:53:26,640
that evergreen of skepticism ufos there

1356
00:53:32,069 --> 00:53:30,079
are so many stories of ufos in digital

1357
00:53:36,230 --> 00:53:32,079
archives of newspapers i can't believe

1358
00:53:38,390 --> 00:53:36,240
it but it's always fun to look at uh

1359
00:53:39,670 --> 00:53:38,400
what uh what people thought in the past

1360
00:53:40,829 --> 00:53:39,680
about uh

1361
00:53:45,270 --> 00:53:40,839
visiting

1362
00:53:47,270 --> 00:53:45,280
aliens and uh

1363
00:53:50,069 --> 00:53:47,280
earthlings who contribute to the skeptic

1364
00:53:51,910 --> 00:53:50,079
zone via patreon or paypal

1365
00:53:53,990 --> 00:53:51,920
we always get a nice uh contribution

1366
00:53:57,510 --> 00:53:54,000
from the folks living around proxima

1367
00:53:59,430 --> 00:53:57,520
centauri hmm thanks very much no matter

1368
00:54:01,670 --> 00:53:59,440
where you are in the galaxy

1369
00:54:03,510 --> 00:54:01,680
your contributions mean the skeptic zone

1370
00:54:05,910 --> 00:54:03,520
can continue

1371
00:54:07,950 --> 00:54:05,920
and if you do enjoy the show then please

1372
00:54:10,790 --> 00:54:07,960
by all means we invite you to visit

1373
00:54:14,549 --> 00:54:10,800
skepticzone.tv and

1374
00:54:15,910 --> 00:54:14,559
click the subscription link

1375
00:54:18,150 --> 00:54:15,920
but for this week

1376
00:54:23,990 --> 00:54:18,160
this is richard saunders signing off

1377
00:54:27,190 --> 00:54:25,750
you've been listening to the skeptic

1378
00:54:28,630 --> 00:54:27,200
zone podcast

1379
00:54:31,750 --> 00:54:28,640
please visit our website at

1380
00:54:37,349 --> 00:54:34,870
for show notes contacts and to access

1381
00:54:39,589 --> 00:54:37,359
the back catalog of episodes going back

1382
00:54:41,510 --> 00:54:39,599
to 2008.

1383
00:54:44,309 --> 00:54:41,520
you can follow the skeptic zone podcast

1384
00:54:46,470 --> 00:54:44,319
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1385
00:54:48,710 --> 00:54:46,480
visit our facebook page or leave a

1386
00:54:50,789 --> 00:54:48,720
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1387
00:54:54,069 --> 00:54:50,799
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1388
00:54:57,190 --> 00:54:54,079
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1389
00:54:59,030 --> 00:54:57,200
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1390
00:55:01,270 --> 00:54:59,040
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1391
00:55:03,829 --> 00:55:01,280
skeptic zone are not necessarily those

1392
00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:03,839
of australian skeptics or any other

1393
00:55:16,069 --> 00:55:05,490
skeptical organization

1394
00:55:21,430 --> 00:55:18,470
hello to those people who wait around

1395
00:55:22,950 --> 00:55:21,440
who stay around after the music

1396
00:55:25,109 --> 00:55:22,960
after the show

1397
00:55:27,990 --> 00:55:25,119
and the easter egg of the occasional

1398
00:55:29,990 --> 00:55:28,000
dice game this is where i roll a die

1399
00:55:32,230 --> 00:55:30,000
this week it's the d10

1400
00:55:34,150 --> 00:55:32,240
a d10 i'm going to roll it three times

1401
00:55:36,150 --> 00:55:34,160
and i want you to use your psychic

1402
00:55:38,309 --> 00:55:36,160
predicting power or your dumb luck or

1403
00:55:41,750 --> 00:55:38,319
whatever you wish to do

1404
00:55:43,750 --> 00:55:41,760
maybe you wish to travel to the future

1405
00:55:46,150 --> 00:55:43,760
and tell me what numbers are going to

1406
00:55:48,069 --> 00:55:46,160
come up that would be something here we

1407
00:55:49,030 --> 00:55:48,079
go i'm going to roll this d10 three

1408
00:55:51,510 --> 00:55:49,040
times

1409
00:55:54,870 --> 00:55:51,520
first number coming up predict away here

1410
00:55:59,510 --> 00:55:57,990
six today's first number is six

1411
00:56:01,349 --> 00:55:59,520
how did you do

1412
00:56:03,349 --> 00:56:01,359
let's do it again

1413
00:56:08,150 --> 00:56:03,359
going to roll the dice now guess away

1414
00:56:10,470 --> 00:56:09,109
six

1415
00:56:13,990 --> 00:56:10,480
hmm

1416
00:56:17,109 --> 00:56:14,000
six and six huh there's a message here

1417
00:56:19,270 --> 00:56:17,119
last one coming up guess away what is

1418
00:56:23,910 --> 00:56:19,280
your guess let me hear it now

1419
00:56:27,109 --> 00:56:24,950
three

1420
00:56:29,589 --> 00:56:27,119
today's lucky numbers

1421
00:56:30,950 --> 00:56:29,599
are six six and three

1422
00:56:32,870 --> 00:56:30,960
and one more

1423
00:56:34,950 --> 00:56:32,880
okay one more

1424
00:56:36,470 --> 00:56:34,960
i know susan go back to yelling out five

1425
00:56:38,789 --> 00:56:36,480
okay susan i'll see what i can do here

1426
00:56:39,910 --> 00:56:38,799
it comes

1427
00:56:41,750 --> 00:56:39,920
three

1428
00:56:43,670 --> 00:56:41,760
it's a rig die

1429
00:56:44,950 --> 00:56:43,680
today's numbers are six

1430
00:56:45,990 --> 00:56:44,960
six

1431
00:56:50,390 --> 00:56:46,000
three

1432
00:56:53,270 --> 00:56:50,400
what do you want

1433
00:56:56,950 --> 00:56:53,280
what do i let you in here for recording

1434
00:57:02,630 --> 00:56:59,990
hmm you want to go out now

1435
00:57:04,789 --> 00:57:02,640
why can't cats make up them all right

1436
00:57:07,190 --> 00:57:04,799
you know you know i'm recording um you

1437
00:57:09,910 --> 00:57:07,200
know i've got all the sound

1438
00:57:10,789 --> 00:57:09,920
now my headphones are tangled

1439
00:57:13,270 --> 00:57:10,799
no

1440
00:57:15,030 --> 00:57:13,280
this is ridiculous

1441
00:57:16,230 --> 00:57:15,040
um

1442
00:57:18,549 --> 00:57:16,240
okay

1443
00:57:19,990 --> 00:57:18,559
they're in a knot how did you do

1444
00:57:24,829 --> 00:57:20,000
all right ready if i open the door do

1445
00:57:29,349 --> 00:57:27,829
well no don't go under the table oh good

1446
00:57:30,870 --> 00:57:29,359
grief